Jojo Katsbulas

Hi there, this is Jojo Katsbulas with the Kansas Trans Oral History Project and today I’m in conversation with Remy Buchanan. Remy, could you tell me your age and pronouns as you prefer them?

Remy Buchanan

Hi, I’m Remy. I’m 29. I literally just turned 29. And my pronouns are he/they.

Jojo 

Awesome. And can you tell me what your gender identity is? How would you describe it?

Remy

My joke gender is that it’s just a question mark but it’s usually just non-binary when I’m trying to be, like, here’s the explanation for the best way to describe it; It’s just one of those things that’s like at one point I went I don’t know and it just kind of stuck.

Jojo 

Totally. Is there any specific words or feelings that you would associate with being non-binary? 

Remy

I don’t really think so. It’s just one of those things that it’s just, once I heard it, I was like, yep, mm-hmm. And it just, I guess the word would be right. It feels well with my soul.

Jojo

100%. Do you remember the first time that you heard the term non-binary?

Remy

Yeah, actually I was thinking about it on my drive over. I was 16, I was a junior in high school. I got my first girlfriend at that time and met my first trans person. That was all, it all happened in a very quick succession. But, they were talking about their gender with me, then they were just talking about gender in general with me, since it was kind of my first introduction into the community as a whole. And they were talking about that, and I was like… “Oh… That’s an option? I can just say no? Okay, I’ll take that.” So yeah, that was probably, that was definitely the first time.

Jojo

Gotcha. And so like right away it felt kind of resonant with you. Did you immediately start, kind of, exploring that or how did that process go?

Remy 

Kind of… It was one of those, like with that group of people I was able to, I grew up and I’m still with a very Republican family. So, it was one of those where even just having a girlfriend was like a lot for them. So I said, okay, we’ll keep this to myself for now. And so I did, for a pretty long while. I didn’t come out to my parents until 2020. And I was 24. So it had been like eight years since I was like, that was decided for me. And it was just, took a very long time, but I started socially transitioning like with my friends and stuff a lot sooner. So.

Jojo

How did the coming out process, when you came out to the more conservative family, how did that process go for you?

Remy 

It’s kind of still going, which is funny because it’s been five years. But my… it happened while on vacation. We’d gone to… somewhere in Tennessee, in the mountains. We were in our cabin. It was Christmas Eve – My poor mother. I had gotten all dressed up because we were doing pictures. She was like, “why don’t you dress like this all the time?” And I just looked at her and I go, “because I’m not like this all the time. I don’t feel like this all the time.” She goes, “sure you do. You’re a girl.” I’m like, “actually I’m not.” And that was the entire conversation. 

She cut it and that was that. And then my dad, I think he just kind of knew. They probably talked about it that night. My sister, I told her a lot sooner. She was, she’s younger than me. Both of my- I’ve got two younger siblings. My little brother, he’s about to turn 28. My sister is 25. Now it’s easy, she’s born in 2000.  But they were actually the first ones that I told, like in the family and that was back in 2018 probably, on New Year’s Eve in the car or at a new year’s party.

Jojo

Gotcha. Have you always had a close relationship with your siblings?

Remy

Yes, particularly my brother. That’s also something I thought about earlier today. My sister is still pretty conservative. She’s not as conservative as my parents, but it’s still one of those things where every once in a while it’s a point of contention for the two of us. 

But my brother and I- he and I have always been close; We’ve got a lot of similarities. When he was in college, he used to call me to talk through some of his more anxious episodes, and we’d just talk on the phone for like an hour and a half while he walked around his campus and I loved that. But him and I are still pretty close even though he lives all the way in Alabama now. Yeah, but he met a girl in college down there, fell in love, got married and now they have a baby so he’s kind of stuck there. But I enjoy going down there to see them and they’re both really great about it. 

Both call me by my name; My family, most of them still call me by my legal name. It’s just one of those things that it’s not worth the time or energy or argument because we still have a pretty decent relationship. I  still live with my parents because it’s affordable. So it’s just one of those things I don’t really fight with them on. My dad’s starting to use my pronouns, so like, I’ll take the small little steps. 

But my brother-in-law, my brother-in-law, my sister-in-law, and my brother both use my pronouns and my name. And when they had their baby, they were all about trying to help me figure out what I wanted to be called. And so was my sister. Now that she’s had a baby, she knows that aunt-anything is not happening.

Jojo

What is the title you prefer there? (ZZ that’s awesome)

Remy 

We’re going with ZZ. Ideally, I also am- I worked with kids for a super long time, super long; seven years. So I’m also aware that whatever they call me is what they’re gonna call me. And I’ve accepted that as part of my fate. It’s just one of those things. And I laugh at my parents were like, well, “they’re gonna call me grandma and grandpa,” like, sure, we’ll see.

Jojo

Absolutely; We’ll see. Gotcha. And so you talked about your brother moving to Alabama. When and where were you born?

Remy

I was born in Henderson, Nevada, actually, just outside of Vegas. We moved around a lot when I was really little; Little enough that I don’t remember most of the moving. The only places I truly remember living are briefly in an apartment in Seattle. That’s where I did my first half of kindergarten. And then we moved to Blue Springs, Missouri in 2001, 2002? One of those years. was after 9/11.

Jojo 

2001, Gotcha.

Remy 

So we moved in 2002 and we’ve lived here ever since. The only time I moved away from the Kansas City metro area was a year that I went to college in Chatham in Nebraska. You’ve never heard of it and that’s fair. It’s a super small town, about an hour and a half south of Rapid City, South Dakota, which is where Mount Rushmore is. My closest point of reference.

Jojo

Gotcha. Okay, That’s a good one. You got me there. Cool. So would you say you resonate most with, like, geographically living in the Kansas City Metro then? 

Remy

I am a midwesterner, Kansas Cityan, through and through. I was recently arguing with somebody over a barbecue on a Discord server because they were trying to tell us – it’s funny because it was mostly Kansas City people in that server or midwestern people in that server – and then we have this person from Kentucky being like, “y’all’s barbecue sauce is bad.” Like, what are you doing? Are you trying to start a blood war? They said there’s too much tomato. I was like, “you’re really trying to- you’re barking up the wrong tree.” Too many people here eat Kansas City Barbecue.

Jojo

Yeah, we’re barking up the wrong tree. Absolutely. So what has been your experience living in Kansas City and growing up as a Kansas Cityian?

Remy

It’s been- I grew up in a very upper-middle class area, so I had a pretty decent experience growing up. I did grow up a little on the sheltered side. We did church every Sunday. I went to church every Wednesday up through like, basically until I figured out that I was queer. I was going to church and I continued to go to church after. We’ll get to that later. But, we had a great community. I was able to build friendships with people that have lasted up through my adulthood. 

What’s really funny about most of those friendships that have lasted through my adulthood, most of my friendships that have lasted into my adulthood, those people have also at some point in their life come out. We really did just find each other in our youth without knowing what we were doing. And like, I see jokes about that online; I’m like… ‘except it really is true.’ You don’t really realize it until you’ve been friends with people since you were seven and you’re almost 30 and you’re like, ‘That many of us? That seems like an awful lot considering how many there are in general,’ But, that was always nice. 

Most of my parents’ friends – that were also my friends’ parents – I still see them sometimes. One of them, I, recently, my mom went out of town, and I was like, ‘hey, if you need to chit chat, you can call me’ because she’s been going through stuff. I was like, ‘hey, I’m here’ because her daughter lives in Chicago. So I’m like, I’ll be there for her.

Jojo 

Absolutely, we’re all each other’s chosen family.

Remy

But yeah, I’ve been really lucky to have, I think the experience I’ve had in the- I don’t know how to quite word it because I’ve made friends, especially into my twenties who have had such different experiences than me in the same area. And I’m like, I don’t think I realized how blessed I was to have the childhood and the experiences I got to have. I did marching band in high school. That was fun. I was in the color guard, so I spun flags and tossed rifles. But that was, yeah, I had few complaints about growing up in the area. I would not trade my childhood or my adulthood so far. I wouldn’t. I thought about leaving and every time I’m like, it’s Kansas City. 

Jojo

It’s home, absolutely. You talk about how you found that group of friends who were, at some point or another, discovered themselves to be on the queer spectrum, whether that’s gender or sexuality; Along the way and making those friendships and having mentors and guides, are there other relationships that you formed with people in the trans community that you maybe didn’t notice at the time, but nowadays you look back and see those connections?

Remy

Actually, I should have said it earlier, but my first girlfriend wasn’t, that was actually somebody who I knew who transitioned. They are actually still one of my closest friends – eh, closest friends is a stretch, but we still will see each other and will message back and forth every once in a while and catch up. But he was also one of the people that I’m like, okay, I knew you were queer, but that too? Welcome. Most of the people that I know it’s been, oh, I’m in my 20s now and I figured out that I’m bi. I’m like, congratulations, welcome to the club. I had a friend sit me down and go, I think I’m asexual. I’m like, that’s great, here, let’s talk about it, Queen. 

It’s been every time, because I was one of the first ones to come out specifically with those long-term friendships, I was usually one of the first people that they came to because I became one of those safe people because they knew I’ve already gone through the trouble of coming out to my parents and dealing with that whole experience of coming out to religious, republican parents. So they’d come and they’d sit and they’d talk to me and we and that was always still even now I think about it like I love that. I love building those kinds of friendships where I can become someone that people can turn to.

Jojo 

Absolutely. I think that’s a big thing in our community is having those people to turn to, so I’m happy that you were able to be that for other people. I’m so glad to hear that. Going back a little bit, you had mentioned that you’re going to church every Sunday, sometimes on Wednesdays as well. Could you tell me a little bit more about your relationship to worship and religion?

Remy

We went to a Baptist church through most of my childhood. I was baptized at 13 at that Baptist church. We went every Sunday. I can find pictures of us all dressed up. I got Bibles for Easter and it was a big part of my early childhood identity, which is funny thinking about it now. It was just a big thing in our household. We did whole celebrations focused around- Christmas was, yeah, presents and everything. But we made it a point to sit down on Christmas Eve. And since I was the oldest, I read the story from the Bible. We didn’t read some storybook version of it. We read from the word, the story of Jesus and the story of the trip to Bethlehem. And we did these cool things on Easter where we would put marshmallows in a croissant, like wrapped up in a croissant, put it in the oven and tape it shut. And then it would cook and you would open it up and the tomb is empty.

That was I think one of the ones that I remember just distinctly, like, that was fun. Yeah, that was- I think that’s why religion stayed important to me through, like, high school, is because in my early childhood, religion was made fun. The churches I went to made it fun. It was less about the doom and gloom, and more about the here’s all the fun and good and blessings. And I really enjoyed that. And it wasn’t until I came out that I started to have issues. And it was more because of how my family reacted to it than how I actually felt about the religion or even God and himself. 

I still consider myself religious. I know that’s on there somewhere. Just, I don’t like to consider myself Christian because that term puts a bad taste in my mouth. Not just as a queer person, but just as a person. It’s one of those things that’s like, I can’t put myself in the mindset of these people who are constantly saying, ‘love your neighbor, like you would want them to love you,’ and then turning around and doing exactly not that. 

I think one of my favorite stories of that particular thing is a lady trying to shove a… pamphlet at me outside of Pride in Houston and I had had a couple of drinks. I was wearing a light top. I was wearing a bra. But I flashed her because I have a Bible verse tattoo. I was like, ‘I’ve already got this covered; Leave me alone.’ And continued walking to my car because- and that’s something I’m still doing; I do it on Facebook. I pick fights with people where I’m like, ‘hi, you’re doing it wrong. Remember that. Go actually read the book, please.’ 

But that’s still a big part of who I am. Just, it’s changed in a big way. I think about 10 year old me meeting this version of me, they’d be horrified. They’d be so horrified. 10 year old me was also the first version of me to cut my hair short. 

Jojo

How was that experience for you? 

Remy 

I did it for locks of love. I was a fifth grader, going into sixth grade. I barely had enough hair. It had to become this- it’s up above my ears now, it had to become this short. My mom cried, but I remember just looking in the mirror and just being fascinated. I then proceeded to keep my hair short up until I think about my senior year of high school, maybe my junior year, because my mom and my dad pleaded with me to have long hair for my senior pictures. And I said, okay.

Jojo

I have a very similar experience. Mine was blonde before my senior pictures. And then they said, please go back to Brown. Please.

Remy

I’ve been every color under the rainbow. I had dyed hair. Luckily, they did not make me go back to blonde. I think that was not an option. I had box black. They were smart enough to know there’s no way we’re getting back to the natural color without shaving it. Which is how I got it back to the natural.

Jojo

That’s too good. That’s the best way to do it; That’s the best way. Yeah. It’s awesome to hear you talk about how religion was made fun for you. I think that’s an important experience of being able to continue that connection is to have an enjoyable experience of it…

Remy 

I think that’s a big part, especially when I talk to my friends who have left the religion. They will talk about our experiences in the church as young children. And they’ll talk about just having to sit and listen. And they hear about the Brimstone and The Fire. And I’m like, “They did that? When you were like eight? Are you kidding me?” I don’t think I heard any of that stuff until middle school at least. And even then it was like a: here’s a brief little conversation on this thing. But let’s go back to focusing on why this is actually not a bad thing. So I think it was a big part in helping me build a faith that I was able to- that I’m still maintaining, even if it’s changing. Even as I grow, it’s constantly changing. 

I also- my friends like to call me Apollo’s bitch. Apollo, no, everyone knows who Apollo is, I would assume. But I work with him in, like, the witchy version. And that’s another way that my relationship with religion has completely changed. I went, also I’m a witch now, who works with a Greek deity, who nobody really talks about anymore. But he’s got gold and bees and honey and all these are the symbols that I specifically think of because I’ve got a bee tattoo. I’ve got a bee necklace. I’ve got a hyacinth ring. At home I’ve got a shelf that has, I think right now, 15 jars of honey on it. And that is my altar. But right next to it I’ve got my Bible. And all of my tarot cards are mixed in with all of my Christian religion stuff. It’s funny for me sometimes to be sitting in my room looking at my shelf going, “This is an interesting combination of features.”

Jojo

Totally, it’s proof to the fact that religion also doesn’t have to be a binary thing. You can totally-

Remy 

I think so. Make it your own; I think that’s how I view life as a whole. Especially my- the year that I went away to college, I had a really rough time emotionally. I was still trying to figure out, like, more precisely my identity. Little did I know at 19  years old that was gonna take a lot longer than 19. Hello, I still haven’t quite figured that out. But I had a really rough… I had a really rough time that year and… I had really rough time and there was a certain point, I think right after I got my Bible verse tattoo. It’s Psalm 18:2, which the quick version of that is ‘the Lord is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer.’ I had had the worst two semesters of my life. I was 12 hours away from my family. It was the first time I’d ever done something like that. It was a really bad idea. But the other thing that happened that year, is I learned to give less of a fuck. Can I say fuck?

Jojo 

Yeah, you can say whatever you’d like here.

Remy 

I learned to not care so much what other people thought about me as a person. Because I was losing friends at that time. It was just what was happening. We were all going through this major life change of leaving high school and becoming quote-on-quote adults. And all of these things and the friends I’d made at college because I’d gotten so depressed had all, kind of, floated away and that reflecting I’m like, yeah, I probably would have left me too. But learning to not give a fuck made it easier to, I think embrace becoming me, becoming myself, becoming just whatever, whatever is I think kind of how I-

Jojo 

That question mark.

Remy

Yeah, it’s a question mark. I’m just, religion’s a question mark; Gender’s a question mark; the next day is a question mark. So like, what does it matter what we keep doing? It’s important to me to live like that is the last thing that I’m gonna do. I want to try and be as true to myself as I possibly can be while also protecting myself. 

That’s one of those things that, you know, just has to, you live in the Midwest, in a red state, you gotta keep a little bit of checks and balances. Like, I’m not gonna lie to coworkers if they ask me about my gender, but I’m also not gonna tell them about it if I don’t have to. And none of them have; Actually one of them has, but that makes sense, she’s a lesbian. We immediately, apparently when she saw me come in to meet everybody after my interview, she knew immediately. She’s like, that’s a queer person. Will you be hiring them? I started like two weeks later and we still, we sit across from each other in the office now and are constantly cracking jokes and discussing our latest Taylor Swift clowning, including the Rep TV devastation. But that’s not what we’re here to talk about.

Jojo

It totally can be if that’s what you want it to be. I talked about Miley Cyrus in my interview, so if you want to talk about Taylor Swift, you’re welcome to.

Remy 

No… But she, it’s funny because she was something that me and a lot of my queer friends, specifically a lot of my non-binary friends, they’re all like, yes, Taylor Swift is our mom, but is she? No. Guys, we need to be a little real.

Jojo

Yeah. Yeah, Stan- stanning an icon like that is- it’s a fun experience. Very nice, very nice.

Remy 

It’s fun. We went to see her in Minnesota. We didn’t get tickets to Kansas City but we got tickets to Minnesota. 

Jojo

There you go, hey anything counts. I’m curious if there’s any specific experiences that you remember that allowed you to lean into not giving a fuck, to learning to not give a fuck, in that early college time.

Remy

So really, the thing that I think about is the tattoo. It was my first tattoo. While I was growing up, my parents told us they had two rules. One was specifically for me and my sister: They would not pay for the wedding if we did not get a college degree. Technically, that also applied to my brother, but let’s be realistic here. It’s funny, because I still haven’t gotten married. Ha ha. But the second rule was: we won’t pay for college if you get any tattoos or piercings. And because I had been so depressed, I said, I’m going to test that actually. And so I did by getting a Bible verse tattoo. And when they got mad and said, well, now you’re going to have to take out student loans, I said, well, fuck. OK. And now I have 10, something, 10 or more tattoos because I was like, well now if I’m gonna be in debt, I might as well be in debt and pretty. Might as well have fun about it. My parents like to call the first tattoo I got my $60,000 tattoo. I just, every time I get a tattoo I go, actually it’s now $6,000 per tattoo. We’re not gonna include the cost of the tattoo itself because then the math gets thrown off. But now $6,000 is about a piece, so that’s not as bad. And the more I get, the lower that number.

Jojo 

Exactly, exactly.

Remy

Eventually, I’ll have enough to go, ‘it’s like two dollars a tattoo!’

Jojo 

Yeah. Are there other tattoos other than your B and the Bible verse that have significant meaning to you?

Remy 

Yes, for sure. This one, this arm kind of is just for fun. This is the Taylor Swift tattoo; It’s “Fuck The Patriarchy” that just rings deeply in my soul. This is a Bo Burnham quote. “Well, well, who’s inside again?” That entire thing, Inside, was just… Incredible. It spoke so deeply to I think so many people just across every spectrum. I was like, yeah, that has, I don’t know what, but something from that is going on my body. And that’s what ended up there. And then I’ve got a Dear Evan Hansen tattoo. It’s a compass with some roses it says, ‘you will be found.’ A couple on my shoulders, on my back, that are less important, but I think my favorite one, and I save this one for last because it is my favorite and I like telling the story about it, is this one right here on my arm. 

It’s a little dagger. It says, “be better than yesterday.” So that quote is actually from a Dungeon Master, a game master that runs games for this group. I’ve actually never played any games with him, but we had been talking… I had complained about an assignment that I had for a physical health thing, where it had put on the thing, gender. I was like, and I was so annoyed about it that I crossed it out, put sex, and then wrote in because I was like, no, no. The best part about that is I was going to a Nazarene school. And I was like, I’m not playing this game with you guys. So I had crossed it out and posted about it in the server. And he goes, and he started having this conversation because he wanted to know why I was annoyed by that. And then he sat there and he had this whole conversation with me and another trans. He’s a cis straight white man. And he sat there in this conversation, had this whole conversation with me and another trans person and listened. And when we praised him for that, because we’re just like, ‘wow, thanks for caring at all. The bare minimum!’ 

He said that his goal is always to be better than yesterday. And I resonated with that. And I said, literally right after he said that message, said, I’m getting that tattooed on my body. And then a couple of months later, I reached out to another friend of mine who is also trans who does art. He is my favorite, favorite artist of mine. I’ve got lots of great artist friends, but I commission him the most. His name is Nathan. Seven Nathan Army, if anybody’s wondering. But I reached out to him and I said, can you draw this thing?

And then he did and it was perfect. And I said, cool. Went to an artist who’s done a couple of my tattoos. I said, would you be willing to put this directly onto my body? Don’t make any changes, just add shading. And she said, yes. And I said, thank you. So I love this tattoo because it’s a combination of a quote from a friend and then it’s art from a friend. I think a way of putting my community more into me. The community is a part of me and I think that’s true for everyone. It’s just not something everyone recognizes and that’s true just for any community. Your community becomes a part of you. Whether you like it or not, it’s just your surroundings.

Jojo 

Yeah, there’s that saying that ‘you are the company you keep,’ and sometimes that’s more true than others, but especially in regards to community it holds true. It bears some weight.

Remy

It’s why when I see stuff online, and you know, it’s especially true right now, people are doing it all the time. If you’re losing friends over politics, would they ever really be your friends? Like, I’m not losing friends over politics, I’m losing friends over ideals. This isn’t about, like, I can disagree with you on taxes, whatever. We can have different agreements on taxes, but I’m not gonna disagree with you on whether or not I’m allowed to be a person. On whether or not I am allowed to get married; whether or not the brown person who got here in questionable ways is allowed to be here, is allowed to due process. That’s the one that’s really getting me right now. But like just all of those little things, it’s like I’m not losing friends over politics. 

I’m losing friends over morals. It’s like we have different morals and that’s okay. When you learn to recognize that then maybe we can actually have a conversation about this, but you’re not willing to listen right now. And it’s funny, my family is constantly accusing me of being unable to listen. It’s like, the problem is I am listening. It’s just really frightening to hear what you’re saying. And what you’re saying is dangerous and you’re not picking that up. And if you could pick that up, then we could…

Jojo

Progress the conversation.

Remy

Progress. It’s gotten to the point with most of my family that if politics get brought up, like, bye. This is for my own mental health, thank you.

Jojo

That’s my cue. Yeah, no, I get you there. Absolutely. What communities have been beneficial in providing those areas to you for open discussion, whether it’s about politics and gender or just existing as you are?

Remy

It’s really the group of friends that I made back in the pandemic. Funnily enough, I met these people through a friend who I don’t really talk to anymore; We just separated. But they invited me to play Among Us with the LGBT people that they had met while at school in Emporia. And I was, like, sure. And then I started playing with them and we all had a great time. And then we’re like, let’s make a discord. And then we did. And here we are five years later and I played D&D and Masks with both- the most of them, not both of them. There are way more of them; We counted the main group and there’s like eight of us in the core of it. So it gets- but that’s the group that I Lean into the most. I try to see them as often as I can Spread out a little bit, but we’re all still in the Midwest which is nice the furthest we go is out to Emporia, then we’ve got a small town of Osawatomie, and then we’ve got a couple of us out here in Kansas City, but those are my people. 

They’re the people who aren’t people, know, where it’s like, I can see you and it’s not gonna cost me mental energy to be around you. Not like seeing my family sometimes where it’s like, okay, y’all have a time limit of two hours before I’ve got to go before my limit is reached. These are people I can go and I can sit with for- I’ll go to hang out with them Friday night and I’ll just stay in their house until Sunday and just do whatever for three days and I’ll still be sad when I leave. But those are my people and those are the people who we have deep conversations and we have fun conversations and we get silly and we play pretend. That was- I don’t know what I would do without those people, especially during this time. Because back before 2020, I really didn’t have a lot of community in the area. I was working on building it, but then the pandemic happened and the community that I had built kind of crumbled because it relied a lot on being in person. And then these people came along and I would not trade them for the world.

Jojo 

Hell yeah. What activities other than, or maybe it is just D&D, what activities do you guys find yourself partaking in? And if it is just D&D, can you tell us a little bit more about what brings you guys together in that so much?

Remy

It’s mostly D&D, and Masks, and so TTRPGs as a whole, tabletop role playing games as a whole. But those are the two main ones we play. And I think what brings us there and it’s something we talk about is we were a lot of eccentric theater kids growing up, and we all have ideas constantly popping in our brains, and we’re constantly trying to get, and I think anyway, I think we are constantly just trying to get creative energy out. Like I said, a lot of them are artists. Some of them do digital art, some of them do scrapbooking art, some of them do crochet or fiber arts, and, like, there’s- all of us are constantly spending creative energy and I think that’s just a great way to get together and have creative juices flowing. 

But just in general, since we are so spread apart, that gives us a reason specifically to come together, to hang out, to chit chat. We usually spend about 10 to 15 minutes before the session actually starts, just chit chatting, goofing around and it’s just fun. We’ll hang out and play board games. That’s another thing we do a lot. Or, you know, Jackbox. We play Jackbox games a lot. And… That’s, but we mostly…

I really do think it’s just we enjoy each other and we enjoy getting to play pretend as adults and really. I say this specifically because I had this conversation this week with a coworker. As adults, we don’t really get to play pretend anymore. That’s unless we have kids and like I did daycare for a long time and kids are something I maybe want, but it’s something that at this point in my life, I’m like a couple years down the line. And if I get to a point where it’s like I can’t have or whatever, I’m very interested in fostering. Like, that’s a thing. But beyond that, if you’re not having kids, you’re not really getting the chance to play pretend. And it’s something I find enjoyable. It’s something I do with my baby cousins when they come over. I pretend it’s something I love doing at the daycare when I work there. And so when I was able to do it with other grownups and have more serious conversations and conflicts and it’s, it’s fun. It’s fun to get to be a 16- A 17 year old superhero who got temporarily transported into a different universe, lived out 20 years, and then got transported back into her normal universe. Like that’s just fun.

Jojo 

Yeah. It’s like those expansive concepts that a kid isn’t able to act out as easily.

Remy 

That’s not something that they understand, and it’s fun and I enjoy that I get to do it because I had a conversation with a couple of co-workers this week and they’re like, ‘yeah I’m not sure I could figure out how to play pretend like that anymore’ and I’m like that hurts my heart like and I can’t imagine getting to a point where I can’t sit and just pretend something else is happening yeah like I’m like do you guys read that’s playing pretend in its own weird way. If you are getting involved in those books, you’re pretending just not in the same way you did when you were eight. And now I get to do it like I’m eight, so leave me alone. They call me a dork and they call me nerdy, but it’s all with love. I throw styrofoam trucks at them, so.

Jojo

All’s fun and love and war… 

Cool. So we’ve kind of mentioned how that group of friends, your community there was really important in the initial stages of your transition; How has community impacted your transition since that initial stage? 

Remy

(Exactly, and it’s war). 

As I have figured myself out, as I have worked through the different parts of my identity; figured out what I wanted to be called. I was given a very neutral name at birth. It’s one of my parents. I think it’s the reason my parents are like, why do you want to change it? It’s neutral. I’m like, because you spent. 20 years saying we wanted to give you a good strong name and it’s a feminine name. Like you guys spent a very long time feminizing the name. It’s no longer a neutral name in my head but when I figured out that I wanted to be called, I briefly went by Vex because I liked… I had a Discord… Tumblr name, it was Vexation Virgil, and somebody had started calling me Vex just as a short version of that. I was like, oh, that’s fun. And so went by that for like six months and I was like, actually, I hate it. And the… The name I picked ended up coming from a Thomas Sanders video. He’s got his character ‘Sleep’ and the fandom had taken to lovingly calling Sleep, ‘Remy’ for REM Sleep. I was like, I love that. I’m taking it. It’s mine now. Yeah, and then my middle name also came from a Thomas Sanders video. Dr. Emil Pacani, I go by Remy Emil. And then after I found that out, my friends did me the great, great favor of pointing out that Remy and Emil are the names of the brother rats in Ratatouille.

Jojo 

That’s awesome. It’s meant to be.

Remy 

Remy is the ratatouille rat. He makes the food. And Emila’s his fat brother. so now rats are one of the things that my friends… Make fun of me with and… 

Jojo

Maybe a rat tattoo is coming. That’s awesome.

Remy 

I do have one. Cuz I’m like if you guys are gonna keep doing it, I’m gonna give in. I’m thinking a little rat in a chef hat; I’m thinking the chef hat with a little rat silhouette, maybe. I haven’t decided yet, but I have and it’s in there. But they helped me figure out, like, the name and like making sure that it was actually right because I was like, ‘can we try this for a while?’ And they also helped me figure out my pronouns for a long time I just went with they/them or even she/her really just whatever the fuck I was like, ‘I don’t care just don’t call me a girl and I don’t care what you do’ but I actually figured out my pronouns from a D&D game I had a character who was using he/they pronouns and they were mostly calling him he/him I was like ‘hmm what if I also used he/they pronouns and mostly used he/him.’ 

But just in general, they’re also mostly younger than me and they all have this youthful, bright, happy, queer, and here energy, at least the way that I see it. It kind of revitalized that, I can be that. Especially since most of them came from, like, a small town. I was like, y’all are doing it out there and y’all are just comfy and happy. Okay. I bet I can try a little harder and it helped me. I think I started changing the way that I like presented myself. I was able to kind of lean more into the masculine energy sometimes and just having this group of also trans and queer people was just a breath of fresh air that I hadn’t had in a while. Again , I don’t think I’d know what I would do without them.

Jojo

It keeps coming up that you have these connections to the online space, to a virtual space, whether that’s with Thomas Sanders or with Discord. I’m interested to know if you feel any inherent connection yourself to that online virtual kind of play-space outside of what’s physical?

Remy

The internet is, I think, as could be said for most younger millennials, older Gen Z, I’m smack in the middle of, which one are you? I’m like, a Zillennial. A lot of our youth was shaped by the internet. A lot of our early experiences were affected by the changes in technology and I spent a lot of time on the internet, a lot, like an unhealthy. I probably still spend an unhealthy amount on the internet, but by doing that I was able to kind of exposed myself to things that I wasn’t getting exposed to in my community. I think the reality of it is for me the internet was able to expand my community and made it more possible to see things and learn things and go out and look at the things that I had questions about that I wasn’t able to get answers from from the people in my life. And it provided broader horizons. It also helped introduce me to people who were, you know, older than me and were like, I’m trans and I’m still kicking it. And I think that’s the thing about the internet for me is I’m like, that’s where I get to see people who are doing things out in other areas and realize that it is possible, that these- it doesn’t end here. And that’s true now, especially true in high school where it’s like life doesn’t end in high school. Wow things do keep going there is there is more though turning 18 was still like a whoa that happened what and every birthday since whoa how did I get here?!

I was discussing with my mom recently, she said we should be celebrating her for my birthday. And of course, all moms, I think, make that joke at one point or another. And I said no, because I’m the one who had to kick last year’s ass, that’s why we celebrate me and not you. That’s why you get Mother’s Day. And I think that, and I would say that if it had been my sister’s birthday or my brother’s birthday, or really anyone. Like, you had to do the last year. And then you’re gonna do the next year and the year after that. And we should celebrate that. 

And I think that’s especially true with people and the… queer community in the Midwest and red states in general. Just, we should celebrate every time we get to make it around the sun one more time. We had to fight really damn hard in whatever way, or form to get to that next birthday, to get to that next pride year, to get to the next name, date, or whatever you celebrate. Like you had to fight really fucking hard to get there and you deserve to celebrate that. Maybe that’s just true in general, every day. Maybe I should take that on myself; every day should be a little more of a celebration because it’s like I made it through yesterday I’ve got-

Jojo 

I made it through yesterday. Hell yeah.

Remy

I’ve got fun little adulting stickers and one of them is like ‘you got out of bed today’ and I celebrate. I look at that like, ‘yes I did I sure freaking did!’ Sometimes it’s important to remember to celebrate those little tiny victories. Like, I watched a video recently about like, in weight loss; It’s not just about the scale loss or the scale victories. It’s also about being able to say, I was able to touch my toes today. Woo. I was able to see my toes when I got on the scale. It’s not just about the big victories of I’m down 50 pounds. It’s also about: I was able to walk a mile and not get out of breath. Those are big important goals. 

I don’t have any plans to… I feel comfortable with my physical body for the most part. Maybe a reduction, that’s like the most I’ve thought about doing, but I’m afraid of testosterone because there are certain parts of it that I’m like, I don’t think I want that change to come happen to my body. Actually, I like that as it is, but there are other parts of it that I’m like, oh that would be nice, but I’m pretty comfortable. So I would leave it alone. 

Jojo

How has the the process of like going through a social and emotional transition in Kansas been for you since you’re not partaking as much in the the medical realm of it all?

Remy 

Uh, the social part is one of those where I try more to, like physically, I present how I want to present; That’s how I do. I hated that sentence, but that’s how it works. And socially, it’s more of a, am I safe? You know, that’s the thing with the Midwest is I have to do a little bit of like, check it. A little bit of, are you a person that I can actually tell? But when I’m not with my family, I’m introducing myself with my name as Remy. I’m not lying, but I’m also not always just coming out and saying, ‘hi, this is my name and these are my pronouns’ because I know that not everybody here is safe. I’m lucky enough to have made a couple of bubbles in the area where I know if I go visit, I’ve done a couple of boudoir shoots. If I were to go visit that studio when there were people there, I know I could go in there, introduce myself, name, pronouns, all of that because I know that that photographer, the community she has built is very specific. That is a safe community to be in. If I were to go visit my sister and a bunch of her friends, I’d be a little more cautious about who I actually presented XYZ information to. I don’t think my brother-in-law technically knows. Like, I think he knows, but I don’t think he knows, knows. And that’s okay. I’m not going to keep it that way. I don’t think he necessarily raise a stink about it but I also think it would always be there in the back of his mind and I don’t like that. 

So for me the social thing is first the check, and then it’s like I’ll do whatever. Here’s all of the information and it’s really nice to be able to fully be like, ‘Let me tell you everything about me.’ But it’s also nice even just for me to be able to say, ‘hi, my name is Remy.’ That’s just one of those little things that really…

 I didn’t start introducing myself as Remy until I got my new job. I had left working daycares and gotten my first office job. And when I started there, I was like, hey, I don’t actually go by my legal name. I want to go buy this. And they said, cool, no problem. And so it’s in my email signature. It’s my name in my email. The only time my legal name ever pops up is when people from corporate email me. I’m like, did you guys even look at the name? You typed in the email, but didn’t look at the name that came up when you typed the email. And that’s OK. You’re OK. I’m not going to judge you for that. You looked at ADP, and ADP only says this. But, I think it’s a, I’m comfortable and I make my choices when I want to and I’m out where I can and where I’m not.

Jojo

Totally. When you first came to resonate with the label of non-binary… the vision for yourself in the future, how is that different from how you see yourself today in this cross section of time?

Remy 

That would require that person to have thought this person would be here. But I think if that person had thought that, it definitely would not be this. I currently work in a trucking office. I work in customer service and trucking. That version of me still wanted to be a teacher. That version of me was still scared of what it meant. That version of me was… undiagnosed with a lot of stuff. And that version of me was just, you know, 16. That version of me was so unprepared for what the future held. I think that’s true for even any 16-year-old, really. I want to talk to any person 16 year old and go, do you actually know where you’re going to be in 12 years? Because you don’t. I mean, my dad’s favorite fact to tell me while I was in college was most people within five years, it’s like 75 % of people within five years of graduating have changed fields from what they graduated with their degree with. So it’s like, no, you don’t know. And that’s OK. 

That version of me could not think this far ahead. That version of me was like, can I get to college? Can I get through college? Can I? It was every day was: can I do this? Can I do this? Can I? And they were scared again. But they just- They could not picture this they could not picture me having the community I have or the They couldn’t picture me even playing D&D. Like, I think about the little things like that sometimes; like they couldn’t picture me having tattoos; They couldn’t picture me having my septum pierced; like there’s so many little things then like I wish I could talk to that- I wish I could talk to that person and go, everything’s gonna be fine. Like it’s not, but it also really is. Like shit sucks. Yeah, that’s not gonna change. Shit’s gonna suck and it’s gonna continue to suck, but also it’s gonna rock sometimes and it’s the rocking sometimes that makes it worth it.

Jojo

Yeah. So on the inverse side of that, where do you see yourself existing 12 years from now?

Remy 

12 years from now, again, I don’t even think I know. And that’s less of a: I don’t think I’ll survive that long. It’s more of a: I’m embracing the fact that my future is ever-changing. I’m embracing that it’s really hard to predict that kind of thing. I think that kind of joined with the not giving a fuck attitude. I stopped having as much feeling as much pressure to think about the future because you can think about the future all you want; It’s not going to go that way. And I learned that the hard way. I was 18, thought I was going to graduate in four years and I didn’t. And I didn’t graduate college for eight years. I then, that’s- I went to four different schools in that time, too. Like that, it wasn’t- it did not go the way I planned. And I think that whole experience helped shape that idea too. It’s just like, it’s really hard to plan for the future.

I’ve got vague ideas. I’ll probably still be in Kansas City. I’ll hopefully have a kid or I’ll be fostering or something. At the very least, I’ll be spoiling the hell out of my niece and nephew or more if they have more. I like to picture myself happy. I try to imagine that things go well. I try not to… especially recently, I try not to let all of the doom and gloom and scary things that are happening win every time. They get to win sometimes because it’s unrealistic to imagine that I can’t, that I can just ignore it all the time. But I try to picture that, you know, it’s just going to be like the last time and we’re just going to get through these four and then we’re going to be done. And then we’re going to go back to them being pissed at somebody else. And here’s hoping. So that is what I try to keep in my brain most of the time when I don’t let the scary win. And there is a future and that’s good. You don’t know what it is yet. You don’t know if you’ll still be at the job you’re at now. You don’t know if you’ll be in the industry you’re in now. You’ll probably not be in the house you’re in now. You might not be in the same city. You’ll be in the same area. Maybe you’ll move states. Like it- I don’t picture too far. I live here. I live today. I don’t live next year.

Jojo 

I think that’s beautiful. I like that. Do you have any other additional thoughts on community or any experiences with community that you’d like to bring up here?

Remy

I don’t think so. I could probably, but I’d probably just go for like 16 billion years.

Jojo 

All good, so we’ll move on to identity, then. When it comes to identity, the questions feel a little bit more broad, so feel free to answer however you’d like. You can take them as you will. I’d like to know what aspects of your identity are most important to you?

Remy 

I was looking at that one earlier and I was like, that’s an interesting question because I think that falls kind of in line with my I don’t give a fuck, because it’s- I don’t know what aspects are the most important to me. For me, it’s like I am because I am. I don’t care what you think. I barely care what I think. There are some days where I’m like, ‘you look extra feminine today. That’s bad.’ But I’m like, it’s just one of those, this is your face. I think what is- what I would consider, I guess, the most important aspect to me is just: The self; Feeling yourself, feeling like yourself. That’s- I want to feel like myself. I don’t want to feel like I’m somebody else. I want to be Remy. I don’t want to be Jimmy. I don’t know who that is, but I don’t want to be them; They don’t sound fun… they could be fun, I don’t know. Feels mean to be rude to this unknown Jimmy. But yeah, it’s probably just not giving a fuck. I just care what- what’s important to me is that I like how I feel.

Jojo

Yeah, I think that’s an admirable quality to be your most important part of your identity; I think that’s awesome. Are there, other than that first kind of college period, are there any other influences on not giving a fuck?

Remy 

I think in general, as I’ve grown and I’ve met other… and I’ve worked with older adults, just seeing… sometimes it’s just seeing the way they kind of crumble on themselves. And it’s not… I don’t mean that in like a rude way. It’s just you can tell that they’ve never really had the opportunity to push back. And seeing that kind of helped build a backbone. Be like, I don’t intend to be an adult in 10 years who’s just letting somebody do whatever. But in the same breath, I saw people who were so confident in whatever they did, whether I actually liked what they were doing or not. They were so confident in doing it that I had to respect it a little bit where it’s like, I can’t even be mad at the fact that you’re… This isn’t something I even pictured but ever saw, but I was told a story about this lady who worked at the daycare a couple months before I had; They weren’t getting covered to go to the bathroom, so she very confidently, apparently, pulled her pants down in the classroom and peed in the trash can. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So, that’s confidence I can respect. What the fuck? So there are moments like that where you see people and you’re like, I could never, but also, yeah.

I just- Recently, we went to the River Market and we walked by this lady who was wearing some ripped skinny jeans. She had leopard leggings on under those jeans, a red, bright red sweater, a leopard coat, bright red lipstick and these bold sunglasses. Her hair was definitely colorful, but I can’t remember. She was an older woman and we stopped to have a conversation with her because I was like, I want to be like you. Every time I see an older person who’s got colorful hair is just so obviously like, I’m living for me. I’m like, that’s exactly how I want to be.

I think those, guess, would be the most, every time I see an old person who’s so clearly, I’m here living my best life. I’m like, that’s the goal. My grandpa Phil lived until he was 92. And he basically did everything for himself until like three months before he died. Like, I want that. Maybe not till 93, but, I want to just be like, I can do this by myself until- until- the until death is right there saying hello. I’m here.

Jojo

By myself and for myself. Come on Gotcha, that’s awesome. Did you feel a strong relationship to that grandpa beforehand?

Remy

That one no. We actually didn’t meet him until 2020. That’s a whole long complicated family history. The TLDR of that is my dad’s mom had an affair that ended up producing twins. She did not tell anybody. And then she died in 2020 and dad’s older sister was like, ‘hey, I’m doing a thing for Ancestry, can we do a DNA test?’ But he was a cool guy. The bit that we did know. The bit that we did get to know him. He very clearly… was very, his independence was very important to him. He was married, but even she was like, he’s got this.

Jojo 

An independent guy. Interesting. Going back really far, in the very beginning, you had talked about growing up middle class. I’m interested to know if being trans interacts with your class status. For those who are listening, I think you mentioned it maybe too, you are a white person. Yes. So I’m interested to know about how being trans interacts with your demographic categories.

Remy 

I think that with my demographic categories, I’m fortunate for the most part. I’m white. I’m upper-middle class. I’m pretty much maintaining that with my job now. Like, it’s… If I wanted to… try to physically transition, it would be a little more accessible to me than it would be for a couple of my other friends who are working in fast food places or just in general. It’s harder for people to access that stuff when they’re in lower wealth classes. And so that also helped me have access to get the information to learn about things. I was- I knew that pride was a thing that was happening, even though my parents didn’t want me to know. I knew it was a thing because we had clubs about it at school. I just wasn’t supposed to be a part of those clubs and those kids were bad. But that- I had access because it was available. It was in my area. And then being like just in general, let’s be real, that’s helpful. 

Jojo 

It’s a privilege. Shouldn’t be a privilege, but it is.

Remy

It so is. And I think about that when I approach, like, life. I’m like you have- yes, you’re trans; yes, that trans is also AFAB, which is like double bad, but, like, yeah there are the bad things but you have to remember the good things, like being moderately- being able to be comfortable your entire life not knowing… something me and my friends talk about, I have a very strong preference for name brand foods. They get mostly off brands. Off brands make me, like, physically uncomfortable to eat. And that’s not a bad thing. It’s more of a, I know that the taste and texture is different. It’s just, if I had grown up eating the other one, I probably would be fine eating it. But that shaped that part of, and then just I’m able to get things to help me physically present differently if I really want to. I can afford to buy a binder, a good binder. I can afford to go to Pride and get into the community in that way and just interact with people and all of that. And then just… Those are the, that’s the main thing.

I think the access to things is growing up in a suburb in a major metropolitan area. There was access, there was space, there was, there’s diversity. That’s the word I wanted. The diversity in the Kansas City region is just asinine. There’s so much of it. It’s great. It’s fun. But it helped, I think, shape who I would become just in general, but helped form the idea of what can be, yeah.

Jojo 

Yeah, I think that’s wonderfully said. I think it’s so important to acknowledge privilege and also the opposite, the oppressions that we do face. So I think that’s wonderfully said. You did mention that being AFAB is double bad; I would love to know if you have any other comments on that?

Remy

It’s one of those where it’s like, when I’m dealing with my female medical care, or just, I know most of the time, I present feminine just because it’s comfortable. Most of the stuff I own is feminine. Who cares? And then I have the occasional day where I’m like, ‘hello, I am a man, ahh.’ But most of the stuff is like, so I know that when I am going out, I can see a man walking by me and feel the eyes and go, OK, this is not a safe situation. But then I would present as a man and I feel the exact same way like, no, I’ve got a very soft feminine present looking face. I am also not safe. I feel like anytime I go to the bathroom out in public I’m like ugh the ladies room I hate going in here sure and I hate seeing arguments about the bathroom on feed but it’s one of those where it’s like I don’t want to go in here but I also don’t think I’d be safe using the men’s room and also the men’s room is nasty I used to they’re gross. They’re nasty if I can find a family restroom I will but just in general Just being a woman and having a woman’s body is not great. 

I got an IUD And then spent the next like 24 hours in bed because it hurts so bad. They finally just this year, were like, ‘hey maybe we should take the pain seriously when doing IUDs.’ I’m like, took you long enough! I’ve had this thing for six years and it was the first time I had something done at the doctor where the doctor, like, after she was done. She’s like, ‘are you okay? Do you- do you need a minute?’ because I straight-up couldn’t breathe for like a minute because it hurt so bad. But I was like this is awful. And that’s just in general, my general- That’s my general experience with the doctors. Yeah, it’s not always great. Most of my problems are well gotta be hormones or well it’s gotta be this and then I talk about being trans with my doctor and they’re like well I don’t know what you want me to do about that and, like, nothing really except acknowledge it right use my name maybe stop sending me mail that has my legal name on it when I’ve told you like three years ago that I don’t fucking go by that. I have just a small break with St. Luke’s it’s like the one hospital I’ve been going to St. Luke’s since I was 16 and that’s you know when you’re been going a certain place for so long that you are I’m not changing

So I’ve been going to this doctor and until she dies I won’t be going to that doctor unless something goes horribly wrong with that hospital in the meantime. It’s a double negative, but also just like, it’s- they’re negative in separate, unique ways. Where it’s like, I can’t be in the world as a woman, I also can’t really be in the world as a man either because I don’t pass enough to feel safe going out like that. I’ve got a friend who’s got a full beard and I’m so jealous of him. He started T and it was like poof. I was like, you’re a bitch actually. You suck. And I hate you. I’m, like, I don’t think I’d be that lucky. I think I might bald like my dad. I don’t want to do that either.

Jojo 

There’s gender euphoria, gender dysphoria, and gender jealousy.

Remy 

The gender jealousy is so real. That one is always funny to me because I’m like, I’m not supposed to be jealous about, like, my personal friends. I’m supposed to look at people on the internet and go, that’s my gender. I can’t be looking at your bearded face and going, you’re an asshole. That’s not fair to either of us. I swear one day I’m just going to shave it off. I know it would come back fuller than ever before.

Jojo 

That’s how it happens. Thank you for sharing that perspective. It’s important to share because I think it’s sometimes difficult to talk about and there’s not a lot of spaces to talk about that. But I think it’s important, so thank you. How has your understanding of gender – whether that’s in relation to yourself or in relation to gender as a concept – how has it changed over the years?

Remy 

I think going back to prefiguring shit out me even before meeting people, I was very much a gender is binary. There’s this, there’s that. Marriage is this and that. I was very, and then I met a queer person. I was like, nevermind; I changed all of my opinions in one day. Crazy how that works. But it just- it’s broadened a lot. Where it started with just, well, there’s this, this, and there’s also this. But now it’s like, there’s this, this, and also like 16 million other things. I’m not gonna go through the effort of listing them all, so I just go to Q, and we go, yes. 

And I’ve learned that… Gender is so unique to each and every person. And that’s not even just like in a non-binary way. Just even in the binary fashion, my sister experiences womanhood a lot differently than my friend Emily does. I’ve got a friend, that friend doesn’t want kids. She’s never wanted kids her entire life. She got married. She’s living happily with her husband and their dogs. Everything. My sister, she just- she has a three month old. He is the light of her life. She would not trade him for the world. She’s got a dog. Her and her husband are happily married. Those are two very different but valid experiences of womanhood. 

My brother in law was in the army. He was an army ranger. My brother just went straight to college and then he works as a recruiter in nursing now. Like, those are two very different experiences of masculinity. And just recognizing that even on the binary, like if that’s all you’re seeing, there’s a spectrum within that binary.

One woman is not gonna experience life the same as a different one. And that’s, I think, just gender as a whole. Gender is so unique to every single person. There will be things where, ‘hey, I feel that way about gender too, but I don’t feel that way. Like, I don’t… want long hair ever. That’s just not a thing I want. But if you want long hair because you’re like, think it would be really cool to have a man bun, great. Good for you.’ Like it’s, I feel like judging people for how they just vibe through life is not worth it. And that’s why I’m just like, okay, gender is one of those where you just have to, kind of, experience it how you experience it. Maybe stop caring so much what other people’s are.

Jojo 

I 100 % agree with you. I think it’s so individualized and in all spectrums, in the binary and the non-binary, in anything in between those, it’s just, it’s all so very individualized.

Remy

Childhood helped shape your version of how things, and that that also makes me laugh it’s like hey parents you really think that this is for funsies you raised two of us… actually three of us… two of them stayed the same one of us didn’t. Which I think is a fun way of being like, your environment is also not always a factor because I had great male, female, everybody influences and I’m still here. Just vibing. Literally, I am Fiero in Wicked. Just Dancing Through Life.

Jojo

Just existing as you are; Dancing through life. Let’s do some dancing through life here. This next section is what I like to refer to as the thoughtful section. Think about these in any way you want and we’ll just go straight through them. Could you first tell me about your proudest moment in your life?

Remy 

So this one, I think for me is pretty easy. It has to be graduating from college. That was a really fucking hard thing for me to do. Like I said, I went 12 hours away from my first year of college. I flunked my entire second semester. failed every single class because I got so depressed that I just straight up wasn’t attending. I only showed up for my biology class when we had tests. Same with my English class. I think I had two other classes that I just, kind of, showed up when I decided I had the energy. 

And then the next year I did online for the first time. I should not have done online for the first time. I failed every class in my second year. had to literally write a paper to justify why I should be allowed to have loans the next year because they were like, you clearly aren’t trying. I was like, please. And so I had to be like, ‘I got really sad. Please give me money.’ And that’s not fun. then it took two more years to get through community college. And then it took me four more years to actually finish my bachelor’s. And it wasn’t at all what I thought I was going to do.

I went to college initially for a secondary math education degree. I wanted to be a math teacher. I ended college with a degree in organizational leadership, which, as I like to say, is just fancy for HR. It’s human resources that make it fancy. But because I had had to go through so much and spend so much money and… sleepless nights and just there was so much that I did to get that degree that I barely even fucking wanted which is funny. I if I could have dropped out after year two, I would have. 

But I finished and I walked across the stage and I got my diploma and I’m like I did that I did the damn thing. And my dad, I went to the same school he did, where he got his bachelor’s degree and he was an adjunct professor there so they let him hand me my diploma and he cried on stage. He cried on stage and we… It was just one of those- I got to open champagne in the street. It was just, since it was such a fight to get there, I think about it with, yeah, maybe it’s not what I wanted, but I got there and I did a lot to get there. And I like it because even my siblings will say that they think our parents are most proud of my degree too because I had to do the most work to get there. My sister and I, my sister is four years younger than me. She graduated from college the same year. So, but I’m just, that was such a trial for me that I’m like, I don’t even care. I could have gotten a degree in underwater fire extinguishing and I would have been happy with that. 

That was my dad’s joke the last time we were younger. Since he wanted us all to get college degrees, he said, I don’t care if you get your college degree in underwater fire prevention. That’s what he called it. You just have to get a degree. Underwater fire. He’s great. He’s still making terrible jokes to this day.

Jojo 

I think that’s an incredible moment to be proud of, so Congratulations. It’s- Perseverance is huge, so that’s awesome. On the inverse of that, could you tell me about your most challenging moment?

Remy 

It’s probably still that first year of college. I can remember very specifically one night and I think it was March of that year. My roommate, we’ve been roommates since August of that year, she moved out because I was becoming such a mess that she didn’t want to be there. One friend that I had at work was so busy with work that they couldn’t deal with me. And to be fair, they were also dealing with their own emotional stuff. I remember like three in the morning, screaming in my dorm room because I was all alone and it felt like that was going to be the end. And that was just a really frightening time. 

I think I ended up going home for spring break not long after and pretending everything was fine. And when my parents finally figured out what I had done, it was a really rough drive home because my dad realized I had flunked the entire semester. But he was also very gentle in his approach to scolding me for it because he also recognized that, yeah, no, you should not have been there. You should not have been alone. That was most of that second semester is like blacked out in my brain. I just remember laying there in the dark screaming and just giant piles of trash all over that room. It took me two full days to clean it out when I had to move. It was bad. It was bad. And that’s- that was just my first experience with solitude and I realized that solitude is- not a hundred years of solitude ain’t gonna be for me. A hundred days of solitude nearly killed me, so.

Jojo

It sounds extremely difficult. What did you rely on for support during that time? Did you have any people or online spaces or hobbies that?

Remy

That was the biggest problem during that time is that I didn’t. I didn’t want to tell my parents what was going on because I didn’t want them to think I was failing. Even though I was, didn’t have, all of my friends were also dealing with college and dealing with becoming young adults and… I had a couple of friends that I worked with who, there was Nikki who I could call and be like, can I come over to your apartment? And she would, every single time she would say yes. And then she would let me come over and let me sleep on her couch because it was usually like, ‘hey, I think I’m gonna lose it and I need to be around a person.’ And so she’d let me come sleep on her couch. And then I had a friend, Alan, who is also trans. And so we just bonded on that. And so was every once in while I could just reach out and be like, I need to just, yeah. 

And there was these people, but then it was really I got my support system back when I moved home. And my dad gently scolded me for not talking to them about what I was dealing with. And I remember I had a hard time that upcoming semester too. And there were several nights I’ve probably got a video on my phone somewhere of, I had been spending so much time down in my room that my family would just all of them would file into my bedroom and just stand around because they’d be like, ‘listen, you haven’t made an appearance and that’s never a good sign for you. So we’re just going to come stand here. So you don’t have to go through the effort of going up the stairs. No, no, no. We all came to you.’ And so there’s videos of, like, my sister laying in my bed next to me, my dad sitting at the foot of the bed, my mom standing next to the closet, my brother trying to show me something on it. They would all just file and be like, we are now your human watchers. That’s why I’ve maintained a relationship with my family, despite their everything.

Jojo

Yeah, I think it’s wonderful that you were able to… Even through recognizing that you may have been failing or you didn’t want to recognize it, I think it’s very respectable that you were able to go back to them and get the help that you maybe needed or wanted. I think that’s very respectable.

Remy

I did not want to, but Lord knows I needed it. That was one of those, you’re moving home, you’re not coming back here next August, you’re gonna start school at home. And I said, It was one of those, it’s one of the few times in my life where my dad’s word was law. I was like, okay, you said it, so it is the rule now. I am moving home and never going back.

Jojo 

I got you. Next question here is kind of a three parter. So first, I’d like to know if there’s any experiences that you would like to comment on in regards to safety or security?

Remy

I don’t think there’s anything specific, like any specific experiences, I think just in general. Like I’ve said a couple of times, just being trans in the Midwest is generally unsafe unless you find the pockets. I think we’re lucky in that we live in the Kansas City area, which is a city which is more blue. We lean towards this is a safer area to live in. If I go a couple of hours south towards Joplin, I’m gonna, it’s gonna be a little more questionable when I drive down to visit my brother in Birmingham. I know it’s okay-ish in Birmingham, but I also know it’s Alabama. Like, I used to date somebody who lived in Texas and there were cities in Texas I straight up would not stop in. Because I could tell that with my short hair and my just kind of non-feminine energy, I was not gonna be safe going into a bathroom. So I was like, I’m gonna just keep driving until I find the next safe gas station, which sometimes meant I was getting to a damn near empty gas tank and fuck off nowhere Texas which was really frightening so I guess that’s about it. 

It’s less here because here I do think being in the city in general, even if there are people who don’t always agree with just everything, there are enough people who will yell at those people that I don’t need to feel as unsafe in this area. But I don’t feel like I can travel two hours south in the same state and feel the same. I know just talking to some of the I work in trucking, I know we’ve got some people there that if they ever find out I’m queer I’m I’m in danger officially, but it’s- have to accept the risk because I also make good money. 

I have to accept that there is a risk because the only place that there’s not a risk is probably about six feet under the ground. I don’t think it matters where you are really. That’s I think the only place where we will ever truly be deeply, truly safe.

Jojo

Yeah. I want to shout out an important resource there. There is an app called Queer Maps that you can use for planning a travel itinerary and it will give you places that have gender friendly restrooms or family restrooms. Yeah, it’s awesome. Shout out to them.

Remy 

I go… I travel. I drive a lot so that’s good to know I am a true midwesterner in that, in that way if I can get there in 12 hours of driving I’m gonna do it I’m gonna drive.

Jojo 

Yeah. That’s so true to the Midwest. Are there any experiences that you would like to comment on in regards to insecurities in the finances, the home, or with food?

Remy 

Exactly. I worked in childcare for a really long time. I don’t know if you know this. They pay childcare workers like shit. You think they pay teachers like shit? They paid daycare workers worse. I was making like $27,000 a year. Even when I became assistant director, so I was making, I think $11.50 an hour. And when I was an assistant director, I was making $14.50 an hour. And running a daycare that had like 70 kids in it during a pandemic. When I quit that and became a nanny, I was making $15.50 an hour. The nanny was my, and it still wasn’t great, and I was a nanny. I make like 22-something now, and it’s like, so. Yeah, they pay, that’s crappy. 

So it also put me in the situation where I am now 29 and still living with my parents because I had a really hard time saving. The ADHD did not help with that because if the money is not physically in my hand, it doesn’t exist. I had a really hard time with my debit card and I had a really hard time with the credit cards that I had. And that led to its own set of situations that I ended up having to deal with in court and blah, blah, blah. And that was fine. But I still live with my parents and I consider myself lucky that my parents do let me live with them. 

I am currently giving my dad money to help me save because that is the only way I can figure out savings. I’m giving him X amount of my check every week. And that’s more of just a I’m bad with money and I’m bad with The circumstances of my life have put me in such a position that it’s like, okay I’m now almost 30 and I need to learn how to save I need to learn how to do adult things I’d like to be able to buy a house. So that’s really, that’s what I’m doing with the money that’s going to my dad is I’m going to be putting down a down payment on the house in like a year or two. If I don’t take that money buy a car and flee to Canada… But that’s the, like, that’s the bad day talking, right? The good day talking is I’m gonna buy a mobile home and like independence or something But it’s one of those… I wouldn’t consider myself someone who’s been terribly insecure with it, but that’s because I’ve always had the fallback of very loving parents for the most part. We don’t agree on all things political, almost no things political, but we do agree that we share blood.

Jojo 

Absolutely. I think it’s also really important there that you mentioned that, you know, you’re 30 now and you want to learn how to save and so you’re doing it. You maybe can’t do it in the way that someone else does it but you found the way by giving that money to your dad and that’s what does it for you.

Remy 

I think it’s important just in general for everyone to remember no one does things the same way. Like, I was- my sister like I’ve said she just had a baby I did childcare for a very long time she was talking to me about they’re having a hard time getting him to take naps and I looked at her, she said, just don’t want the daycare workers to hate us because he won’t sleep. I’m like, they won’t. He won’t be the first and he won’t be the last one to do that. And you just need to, like, take a breath because whatever. That’s what they’re there for. It’s transitional. 

It’s just… And it’s nothing, no single experience. We’re sitting doing the exact same thing and experiencing it differently. We’re both riding the Mamba and we’re both having a very different ride. I’m having a great time, you’re having a terrible time. I don’t know. I’m having a terrible time, you’re having a great time. 12 year old me is having a terrible time on the Mamba. 29 year old me is having the best time. Like it’s… Get things when you were younger. That’s not gonna necessarily be the same. There’s… I don’t tie my shoes like I did when I was six. because if I tied my shoes like when I was six, I don’t know, they might actually stay tied by now. And it did not tie well, but everything is a unique process and it’s not, yeah, it’s individual, everything.

Jojo

Absolutely. And what about any experiences you faced with mental health, physical health, or addiction?

Remy 

I have a long standing history with depression. I was initially diagnosed with anxiety at 15. And that started because I was picking really bad at the back of my hands. And then depression came after that. And so that’s been 13 years now. So almost half my life where it’s been. And really what’s fun about that… fun. And then I was diagnosed with ADHD in my mid-20s. I recently had a friend say that I might have OCD and I was like, ‘you don’t need to *unintelligible* it’s fine.’ But like, those, especially when I was younger, they really kind of kicked my ass. But I think more, on the, I don’t give a fuck. It’s learning to A, take my meds, but also learning to tell that part of my brain that says everything’s gonna set itself on fire and you’re gonna die, telling that part of my brain to just shut the fuck up. Sometimes that works. And sometimes it’s just like… The best part about growing up for me has been learning that, the mental health part, that your mental health does not define you. Like, yeah, it does to a degree. You are depressed. You do have anxiety. You do need more vitamin D than other people. And you do need to take a medication to make sure your brain produces enough serotonin. But also, that doesn’t mean you’re bad. It’s a fine thing. Lots of people do it. And it’s, it’s, it’s… accepting that was great and came along a little later than the, like, physical part. The mental health part was harder for me to, like, accept than the physical body part because I think it was because I got I think kind of misdiagnosed. If they had diagnosed me with ADHD when I was 16 and I started taking Adderall then I probably would have had a whole lot better experience in college but could have would have should haves. But really once I started taking the Adderall, I realized, you mean depression is a thing that is just a side effect of the other thing? And taking a medication dealing with that thing actually help? Fuck you.

The first time, like the week after I took Adderall for the first time, I realized that my mood had improved overall. I was still taking my antidepressant, but my mood had improved overall. I was like, holy shit. We are actually handling the problem now and realizing that was great. I was like, it wasn’t just anxiety that was the problem. It was my brain moving about 16 miles too quickly for the world around it. And I am very heavily medicated now.

Jojo

Good for you and good for, thank you for sharing that experience. I think there’s a lot of instances where that mental health part is harder to grasp. So I think that’s awesome for you to share.

Remy 

People are less comfortable talking about their mental health. I, in my journey of I don’t give a fuck, I tell people pretty much I’m, I try to be a pretty open book because it’s like, ‘hi, yeah, I have a struggle. I’ll bet good money you have a thing you’re struggling with too. Why are we bothering keeping it a secret?’ That’s why I never understood when I was younger my parents would say, you can’t tell people how much money you make. I’m  like, but why not? Why does it matter? That’s like I never understood that I’m like I know people are gonna be making more money than me and I know some people are gonna be making less money than me.

It’s still not something I understand. And now I understand that, it’s illegal for your employer to tell you not to share your wage. It is if you are ever looked in the eye by, like, your employer if you’re hired and they say ‘Hey, we’re gonna pay you this don’t tell anybody what we’re gonna be paying you.’ That’s illegal. They can’t tell you to keep your pay private. 

A whole thing about the job market is that you’re supposed to be able to discuss your pay because that’s- because that’s how you make sure everybody’s getting paid fairly which is why they don’t want you to do it. But that’s why it’s also illegal for them to tell you not to share. If you’re ever able to catch somebody on recording saying don’t tell your co-workers, go report them to the Better Business Bureau; they deserve it. 

I learned that after being told for the first time; I went to Google and I asked, is that allowed? They said no. I think that’s the federal labor office or something, that’s like you can’t do that.

Jojo

Huh, good to know. Yeah, I did not know that. Good to know. Makes sense, makes sense, honestly. Fairness is important. Cool, well thank you for commenting on those. Are there any important sources of support that you’ve interacted with, whether that’s people or organizations that you would like to take a moment and recognize?

Remy

I would have to, I think I’d have to mention that boudoir photographer that I was talking about earlier, her name is, goodness, I just forgot her last name. Her name’s Kenzie. The studio she runs is the Empowerment Studio. She is body positive. She is… She covers all sorts of stuff. They were actually one of the first people that I had wore my binder like in front of, in front of. My first shoot with them, I worked as a model and we did one of my sets in my binder and… That really answers five too. That was, think, one of the first times that I felt truly like someone else saw what I saw, and somebody else helped me see that too. She was so on board with the idea of the binder boudoir and she just helped put me in a zone where it was like, yes, this is great. And then when I did my second shoot with her, I had some of my favorite shots are in a shirt that says ‘gender is a social construct.’ 

And her photography is great; Fucking beautiful. I’ve got some metal pieces up in my bedroom. It’s just naked photos of me basically. Sometimes I’m just looking at myself. I’m like, you put me on camera and I’m just like, and it’s, one of those things where she’s, somehow manages to put more than just the physical version of me, but also I can feel what I was feeling in those pictures. I love, love Kenzie. She’s fantastic. And then they’re slowly reintegrating into doing, in person, like studio gatherings. I think they did a book club last month. It’s a great… that entire studio is… everyone I’ve interacted with through them is just stellar. The energy is stellar. They’ve got several non-binary or queer and lots and lots of queer people and it’s just a great little community there in Kansas City. 

Jojo

That’s cool. That’s so awesome. I haven’t heard them before and I am definitely going to be looking into them after this.

Remy 

She’s great. Also talked about if I ever were to do top surgery, doing another shoot with that. I’m trying to, like, any of my friends, if you ever get… I need someone to do it.

Jojo 

Please. Totally. think that’s, you know, it’s that studio is providing that opportunity that, that we don’t see that often.

Remy

And I think that’s why I’m like, I have to mention Kenzie right now. Because it is, I don’t think there are a lot of, at least in this area, that are so open to the queer experience and helping put that comfortably on canvas.

Jojo

I love that. Are there any other comments about that experience of feeling seen that you would like to make? You can expand on it more or not make anything else.

Remy

I can just remember standing, she does this thing called the flow pose, and you just stand with your eyes closed and, kind of, like trace the different, trace up and down and it was quiet and I… could feel myself breathing. I could hear the camera clicking and I just remember being like, I felt something release within me that was like, a breath just coming out from somewhere I hadn’t even realized it had been. It’s just an indescribable feeling to have that just click because somebody else is helping you see you the way you want yourself to be seen. And if you can’t, I 10 out of 10 recommend doing at least some sort of photography with someone somewhere for anyone. It helps connect with yourself, I think, to get photos done of yourself. can even just out in the forest, do something. Do something fun. Take pictures of yourself. Put yourself behind the camera. Not behind. In front of the camera. Put yourself in front of the camera and…

I’m all about living in the moment. I was telling my sister earlier, I don’t take pictures as much when we’re hanging out as a family anymore, but I’m here like, but also that you should have pictures of yourself. Don’t just take pictures of things. Go out, set up your camera and take pictures of yourself in the most you. Go sit in the forest, in the sunset, pick up some leaves, put them on top of your eyes and just do something silly. I think it’s, there’s something about seeing yourself on camera that can help, I think, help you realize you. If that makes sense.

Jojo 

That’s yes, I think that’s incredibly well said. I think, think that at the very least that resonates with me. And I think some of our listeners will hopefully resonate with that. Cool. So we’re towards the very end of our interview here. I’d like to take a second and say thank you. Thank you. I am so happy to have you be a part of this and we did have to reschedule, which I apologize for, but I just want to thank you for being a part of this and sharing your story. I think it’s important to document it and I’m happy to have you.

Remy 

I’m really happy to help. As soon as  I had a post that you were doing it, I was like, yep, I’m in. And I was like, how often do you have a chance to talk about? Especially when you’re just a person. How often do you get a chance to just talk about your life experiences? So, I thank you for just doing this as a whole for not just me, but like the community in the area in general. I think it’ll be really nice to hear some of these stories.

Jojo

Thank you. It’s, it’s, we’re coming together as community. A labor of love; Absolutely. Awesome. So this last, last question here will be what we end the recording on. We’ll end with your words. So answer however you would like. If your next sentence could be broadcast globally, is there anything that you would want to say to every person on earth right now?

Remy 

I- I have to go back to the very root of my being. It’s just stop giving a fuck. It’s your life and you should live it how you want to. Stop giving a fuck.