Jojo Katsbulas
Hi there, this is Jojo Katsbulas with the Kansas Trans Oral History Project and today I am in conversation with Cheshire Fletcher. Chess, could you please tell me your age and pronouns as you prefer them?
Cheshire Fletcher
Yeah, my name is Chess . My age is 29 and I prefer he/him/his pronouns.
Jojo
And how would you describe your gender?
Chess
I just see myself as trans man, trans male. Not cis male, not anything like that, but, like, just very proud trans male.
Jojo
Totally. And can you tell me when and where you were born? And when did you come to Kansas?
Chess
I was born in Santa Ana, California. I was seven when I came to Kansas. I just turned seven.
Jojo
Very nice, very nice. Awesome. And at what age about did you begin to realize that you were transgender and start to understand what your life may be working towards?
Chess
Well, I was doing a lot of things that were transgender-based, but I didn’t realize that they were like trans. Like, I would be online and I would play as like male characters and stuff like that. And I don’t know, I did all of that, but I didn’t have, like, realization until maybe like 2011 when I started watching, like, the transition videos for like trans guys and stuff like that.
Jojo
And what age were you in 2011?
Chess
2011 I was turning 16.
Jojo
Cool. so at that point you were in Kansas? Do you remember your first time hearing the term trans?
Chess
I was in Kansas, yes. I don’t remember my first time hearing the term trans, but I remember hearing the first time I heard non-binary, and that’s when it clicked for me.
Jojo
Sure, can you describe that experience for us?
Chess
Yeah, when I first heard it, I saw it online as everyone would, honestly. And it was just a picture and it said something like, ‘nobody can define your gender’ and that hit me and I was like, “my God, like this makes so much sense.” Nobody can define my gender. So I made that my, like, little headline photo on Facebook for a long time. And that was my way of coming out as non-binary. But I didn’t like fully set-forth my story, I guess. I just kind of subtly kind of brought myself out there. Yeah.
That was 2014. It was the end of 2014 when I figured it out. I came out in 2015 as a Trans man.
Jojo
Gotcha. And so you said that that’s the first time you ever felt like that label kind of fit with you that definition of, ‘no one else actually can define it’.
Chess
Yeah, but like, there was, like, times where because I have- I had medical problems; I had PCOS growing up and so I wouldn’t have, like, cycles and stuff regularly and I went to the doctor and I found out that I had PCOS. And I made a joke to my mom, and I was like, ‘Mom, what if this is, like, this means that I’m supposed to be a boy?” You know, just kind of made a joke about it and she was, like, really upset about it, but yeah, that was kind of like my first time where I was trying to push it and that was in 2011. So it had been on my mind for a while because of those transition videos that I started watching.
Jojo
Slowly, kind of, built towards becoming a reality. So, now you would define yourself as the label of trans man. How do you define that label today?
Chess
It’s very broad. it could be… Honestly, I don’t know. I don’t like labeling it. Because it could mean something different for everyone. Yeah, I don’t really like to label it.
Jojo
Are there any other early experiences in your life that with the trans community spark interest to you that you want to comment on? And that can be at any point in your life.
Chess
I think it’s all those transition videos, honestly, because there were a lot of them that, one first, like specifically, there was a dude named Skyler who was like a really big influence. And I would just continuously watch his videos because it’d be ‘one year transition videos’ and then he would do updates and stuff like that and it just really interested me. And there was a point where one of my friends was like, ‘you watch those videos so often, are you sure you’re not also trans?’
Jojo
At that point, people asking you that, how did that feel?
Chess
I wasn’t unwelcome to it, but it was very foreign, if that makes sense. It was hard to grasp the concept that that might be actually what I was. If that makes sense.
Jojo
And these videos, would you say mostly on YouTube or Facebook or-?
Chess
YouTube back in the YouTube days.
Jojo
Gotcha. Cool. And so, since coming to Kansas how would you say that Kansas or living in a rural area has impacted your development, your transition, or your being just as a Trans Man?
Chess
Well, most of 2010, 2011, I was living in a really small town and that’s when I was like starting to discover the whole idea that maybe, I don’t know, I’m not a straight-cis-female. I was… moving into- there was just like a whole fiasco that happened in the family and I moved in with my mom. And my mom was a lot more, like, welcoming and open about everything so I was able to actually be myself once I moved out of that town. And that’s when I started to, like, actually discover myself.
Yeah, mean small towns- Yeah, small towns is where the problem kind of lies is where you’re afraid to kind of like be yourself. But when I moved to Lawrence with my mom, that’s when it definitely got easier and I was able to actually come out. My best friend visited me and she ended up coming out to me as well. So that was a nice little thing that we got to do together.
Jojo
Awesome! And so, since moving to Lawrence, what people have been most important in your life and what communities here have been most important to you?
Chess
I mean, I always gravitate towards anybody that’s in LGBT community, anybody who is… just has a friendly face. I don’t know. Someone who I feel like I can connect with and not feel uncomfortable around. I tend to feel a little bit uncomfortable around cis-males just because they intimidate me. I’m shorter. I don’t, I feel like- I don’t, like, fit in in a group of cis men. If I was to be in a, like, sitting next to four fraternity guys, I’m going to be the one that sits out of that. Like I’m the odd ball out.
Yeah… I don’t really see myself in a community. That’s what I’ve been trying to work on the last year is getting myself into the LGBT community. I finally met a partner who does a lot of LGBT stuff and has been getting me out there. And that’s been really fun, just doing, like, little events and stuff like that. I work nights so it’s really hard to be able to go to drag shows and stuff like that, but I’m really hoping that that changes soon.
Jojo
Totally. Outside of the LGBT community and the trans community, what hobbies do you partake in? What things do you like to do outside of work?
Chess
So, I’m a big gaming nerd. I play RuneScape. I also do Discord stuff for RuneScape. It’s a really big part of my life. There’s just like a whole lot to it. It’s really hard to explain and I’d rather not get into it.
Jojo
You don’t have to but you can if you want to!
Chess
It’s just like a waging server for the in-game money. But yeah, I’m a… manager and that… I do a lot of, like, management stuff in that discord server and then I also like to tattoo. I like to give myself tattoos, in no way am I perfect, professional, but it’s still something fun that I like to do. I haven’t done it for a while though, I’d like to get back on that grind.
Jojo
I need another one.
Chess
I don’t really know. I sleep. I sleep a lot.
Jojo
Cool, that’s awesome. And do you consider gaming, discord, doing tattoos? I know I believe you play pool or used to play.
Chess
I play pool every Monday! That’s right! Yeah, so I forgot about that!
Jojo
Do you consider those communities you’re a part of too?
Chess
Yeah, I would say so actually.
Jojo
Awesome. And so could you- if there’s one of those that you see yourself most in line with, you’re spending the most of your time with one of those communities, where do you see it?
Chess
Sadly discord.
Jojo
Discord. That’s not a bad thing. Why is that sad?
Chess
Just because, I don’t know, it feels so nerdy. There’s a lot to it, like I said and there’s so much behind, like, going on behind the scenes of the Discord channel and, like, running it and it’s just so much.
Jojo
Do you have any comments on what an online community means to you versus in real life or in not virtual life?
Chess
I feel like I can connect easier with people online. The community is more welcoming if that makes sense because people aren’t judging you based off of just, like, immediate looks or anything like that. I don’t have this guard up online that I do have in real life. I’m at work, I have a mask on where I have to act as masculine and male presenting as possible when I’m around certain customers because then I don’t want them to be like… calling me out because I’ve watched, like, I had a coworker who wore a mask, like every shift, and the people that didn’t like wearing masks, they would come in and they would make fun of him. So it’s just stuff like that where I was like, I’m always trying to, like, avoid the situation where I get called out for being Trans or anything like that.
Jojo
Totally. And you described it as, kind of, masking. When the mask comes off, how do you see yourself? How do you, how do
Chess
I’m very flamboyant.
Jojo
Flamboyant? Cool. Do you see yourself as a flamboyant person in those online communities too, or is that different?
Chess
It definitely gets in there. Totally.
Jojo
Okay, cool. Cool, cool, Could you describe your relationships with other people of trans or non-binary genders, whether that’s friends, relationships, whatever it may be?
Chess
So most of the people that I try to surround myself around are typically trans or, like, LGBT based. My partner is trans. I don’t know, that’s just what I constantly surround myself- It’s what I feel most comfortable around. So I’ll always try to search for that in anything when it comes to finding a new community because they’re people that I’m able to connect with and they understand me and I understand them.
Jojo
Absolutely. What experiences of community have you found important in your transition?
Chess
I think when I go to the drag shows it kind of shows me like a lot more of what’s out there. There’s a lot more experiences just generally when you go to a drag show. There’s a lot more openness. There’s a lot of, like, welcoming. There’s no judgment and that’s what I really prefer and what I like to surround myself with.
Jojo
Absolutely, who wouldn’t want to surround themselves with freedom and fun? Cool. And what processes of your transition have happened in Kansas and how has that process been for you?
Chess
Oh boy. Okay, so my whole transition happened in Kansas. Let’s see it started in 2015 I came out and then about a month later. I had a friend hit me up from Wichita who went to a clinic to get their, their testosterone and it was informed-consent at the time because otherwise you’d have to go through, like, a whole process and, like, a whole bunch of therapy and all that. but this was an informed-consent clinic. So I was able to drive two hours, pick up my T that day and then come back. And I got to start that, that day basically. So what I did was because of that situation, I started telling like a lot of the people in the community. And so they started also going, and then it started kind of a frenzy of everybody in Lawrence going to this clinic to get their hormones because it was like an easy thing. They don’t make you go for a second time. You get it just the first time. Check in every three months, you know. It was nice and easy. But yeah, that was back when it was, like, harder to get prescriptions, so.
Yeah, I was really really grateful for that friend that hit me up and let me know because it helps me get everyone else into the hormones, like- like, get started on hormones as well here in Lawrence.
Jojo
Do you know if that clinic is still around today?
Chess
I don’t think it is. I think they may have shut it down.
Jojo
No worries. So that’s like a wonderful success that you’ve had. Can you describe any obstacles that you faced while transitioning here in Kansas?
Chess
Definitely during the first year you deal with a lot of misgendering, even though, like, you’re taking the hormones and you see the changes yourself. Other people aren’t seeing it, so it’s like really discouraging, and it feels like you’re not getting anywhere. So the first year was really hard, just constantly getting misgendered, especially staying at the same job and transitioning. Because then the regulars – because I was working under Starbucks – so the regulars were like, still misgendering me and not, kind of, like, understanding why I’m growing a beard and all of this stuff and why my voice is dropping and “are you sick?” you know, no, I’m just trans, I’m just transitioning.
Jojo
Well, I’m sorry you had to go through that. I know a lot of Trans people deal with- Trans and Non-Binary people deal with misgendering and that’s such… it never doesn’t hurt. You can try your best and if you make a mistake, that’s a mistake, but it still does… it hurts. So I’m sorry that that’s an experience that you’ve had.
Chess
No, it doesn’t. I think that’s an experience that honestly like most trans people will go through is that first year is just like the roughest year.
Jojo
Do you have any advice for people going through that first year?
Chess
I mean, it gets better! That’s the only thing I can say. I know it’s, like, so, like, cliche but you- once you get over that hump you, like, life starts to thrive. You start to do really well and you get to be yourself and people see you as yourself and it’s really, like, exhilarating!
Jojo
Exhilarating is a good word for it. So when you started your transition, I’m sure there was a vision of what you saw for yourself. Can you tell me how your transition has been different and how you may have saw yourself at this point now, almost a decade in, a little more than a decade in? How has that changed?
Chess
Yeah. The only thing that I’m upset about is that I still don’t have top surgery. Yeah, it’s been it’ll be ten years in June and I still haven’t had top surgery. I just had my hysterectomy in October of last year.
Jojo
Congratulations!
Chess
Thank you! That was very exciting to do. I felt like it was more necessary than top surgery just because of, like, cancer related reasons; You know and having PCOS in the past. So I just wanted to make sure that none of that gets worse essentially. Yeah.
Jojo
Do you have plans for top surgery? that in the works or is it something you’re just working towards right now?
Chess
So with this new job, I’m gonna get insurance and that insurance should be good insurance. The insurance I have right now is decent insurance and I got it because it’s such a low out of pocket maximum so I could get the surgery. But they don’t, like, they’re not taken by many people. They might be taken by KU Med, but I’m not sure honestly. And if that is the case, then I could get top surgery this year. But, I’m just waiting on the new job experience with the insurance to see if that’s something that I’ll be able to do. But yes, I want it so bad.
Jojo
Awesome, cool. I hope you get it soon, as soon as you want it. Can you describe any intergenerational relationships with LGBTQ plus people, if you happen to have them, people that are older than you, younger than you, that sort of thing?
Chess
So, it’s really weird because the person that I’m dating has been on T for about as long as I have. But typically, I end up being the elder-trans, since I’ve been on T for as long as I have been. They’re- like most of the people that I meet have only been on T for like a few years or like five years max or something like that. So I’m always like,’well, I’m like almost 10 years’ and they’re like, ‘holy shit, that’s crazy!’ And I’m over here like, I still don’t have top surgery. And they have top surgery and I’m just, like, really jealous. But yeah, I feel like I am the older one. Most of them are pretty much younger than me. Besides my partner who has started T, I think, like, maybe a year after I did. He’s been on T for a while. That’s really the only other person that I can think of that’s been like on T as long as me. But otherwise it’s really just a lot of younger ones.
Jojo
You said, specifically, that you kind of fulfill this ‘elder-trans’…
Chess
Totally! Yeah, I feel like an elder-trans!
Jojo
Did you have someone for you that fulfilled that sort of elder-trans role?
Chess
Yeah, all of those videos that I had watched on YouTube, all those inspirations. Emory was another person that I would follow on YouTube… MQism, I think, was their YouTube name. That was actually a really big inspiration. I went back and watched that video a year ago just because I wanted to revisit it and just see how much has changed since that video was made as opposed to videos out that are out now. But yeah, it’s just crazy and also nostalgic.
Jojo
Totally. How was watching that video back?
Chess
It was very nostalgic. It was very like… It was- it’s like a 20 minute long video and it’s very sad because like in part of the video he gets broken up with. his- Him and his girlfriend break up and so he’s, like, singing a song and it’s just, like, a really sad song and it’s just I don’t know. It’s just- it gets emotional. Yeah, it’s so emotional and you can tell, like, the difference between, like, what his voice sounded like then and what his voice sounded like beforehand. It’s just- I don’t know. It’s always really cool.
Jojo
Absolutely. Earlier you talked about watching the videos that also kind of include, like, the timeline, how people’s transitions are different at different point in time. Did you ever do anything like that documentation for yourself or for others where you were just keeping track of your transition?
Chess
I got started on it and about a year in is when I gave up because I just wasn’t like consistently doing it. I would do like the videos of like checking in, like on my voice however months on T and then I just kind of stopped doing it but I really wish that I didn’t because like those were such big inspirations to me so I wish that I could have followed in the little footsteps but I did not.
Jojo
All good, all good. Awesome. So moving from community, we’ll go forward towards identity. And I’m interested to know, in your own words, what aspects of your identity are most important to you?
Chess
Aspects of my identity…
Jojo
Could be anything you want. What makes Chess, Chess?
Chess
I like to think that what makes me me, is that I’m a no judgment zone kind of person. I’m a very open book generally. People can come to me and tell me their fucking darkest secrets and I’m not going to judge them for that. Just being there, being a support system is what I think I pride myself most on.
Jojo
And are there any specific important influences on your sense of self on why you see yourself that way or what melded you to be that way?
Chess
I grew up with a lot of judgment of myself. Just, like, my family, was very judgmental growing up. So it kind of taught me that I don’t ever want to make somebody feel the way that I had to feel.
Jojo
Absolutely. I think a lot of people can resonate with that. How does being trans impact other aspects of your being, whether that’s race, class, ability?
Chess
Honestly, I don’t think it really impacts a whole lot. I’m very open about it, so I don’t really… Like, if something’s going to affect it, then it’s going to affect it. But typically, since I’m open about it, it hasn’t affected my life. I let people know when I start jobs that I’m trans, just so it’s out in the open. It’s not an issue. I’m just, I’m a very open book. Like I will let people know that I’m trans if they’re curious. It’s not a big deal. I don’t mind telling people I’m not hiding the fact that, you know, that’s the case.
Jojo
I gotcha. And how has your understanding of gender or of transness as its own thing changed over the years, if it has?
Chess
Oh, it’s changed drastically. I grew up in a household that was very anti-gay. I actually had dated somebody who was… I dated a cis guy back in seventh grade and in tenth grade. We dated twice. His name was CJ. He was… knowingly gay to everybody, but he hadn’t come out. So when I was dating him, my ex stepmom at the time was like, ‘hey, you need to break up with him because he’s gay.’ And I was like, that’s a really shitty reason to break up with him because how are you going to just make that assumption? So I had to break up with him. He cried for four hours. And yeah, that was, that was rough. And then we dated again in 10th grade and I had to break up with him again because of the same situation.
Jojo
Totally. And how did that impact your understanding of transness or of gender sexuality at that time?
Chess
That was the first experience that I had with anything gay related, especially being in a small town. So it put a negative effect on me. And there was actually a point where I was so angry about the situation, I was just laying on the floor and I was just like, I’m just gonna become a lesbian then if I can’t date boys. I’m just- I’ll show her. Yeah. Oh man.
Jojo
Other than that ex in that situation, are there any other key people or events or ideologies that have aided in your understanding of gender?
Chess
I think people that I come across daily in the just, like, online community there’s you know people that I’ll meet on, like, dating sites and stuff like that who will be trans and have their own experiences and we’ll talk about that and I don’t know it’s always nice to like hear other people’s stories and see where other people are coming from. But I don’t know, it just gives me, like, a wider idea of just how it is in the trans world as opposed to just my story if that makes sense.
Jojo
Yeah, absolutely. Cool. Moving on towards our last section here. This section is more thoughtful. So feel free to spend as much thought or as little thought as you want on these questions. Firstly, could you tell me about your proudest moment?
Chess
Yeah. man, I don’t know, I’m not good at these ones.
I guess I could say my proudest moment would be taking my first T-shot. So I was… It was 2015. I had just gotten my tea and I was… eager. I was, like, I literally got it from a random pharmacy in the middle of Wichita. I was, like, I’m not waiting to get to Lawrence. I want this in my hands now. So I finally got it, and then I went home and I was instructed to do it intramuscular because that’s how it was at the time. And it was the most painful thing that I had to do because putting it through your thigh with a giant needle is terrible! And I couldn’t walk for a good week until I had to do my shot again and then I couldn’t walk again. It was just a continuous cycle! And that was only for the first few months but it got better. But yeah I don’t know it was just the- the moment of that, like, sense of I’m finally being- becoming who I want to be and this is like the first step towards it that felt really freeing and really like I don’t even know, I don’t have words. It was just, it was a good moment.
Jojo
Cool. Sounds euphoric.
Chess
It was, it was very euphoric, it was very, it was exciting. Yeah, I had my partner at the time help me, because I was very terrified to do it on my own, but we got through it.
Jojo
There you go. Awesome. Next question. Could you tell me about your most challenging moment?
Chess
Let’s see. There’s one that I can think of, the one that just came up to the top of my head. There was a situation where I was driving in Long Beach, California, and it was in June, so it was Pride Month. And there were stopwalks- stoplights- or crosswalks, there we go, words are hard, that were like all painted rainbow, just like all throughout the city. And that was just like a really nice little reminder of, know, Pride. you know, and just like support and stuff like that. And as I was driving, I was getting ready to turn and there was somebody who was not taking, like, they were doing it illegal, like, they were trying to pass a red light and so they decided to yell out the window, “faggot” at me and I was just, like, what, like, he used more than that he said ‘fucking faggot’ I don’t if I’m allowed to curse in this… but yeah he just screamed that out the window and I was just sitting there, like, what did I do, like, all I did was try to turn in this turning lane and I’m getting called a fucking faggot and it’s like what you’re basing me literally solely off of my looks? And that’s that’s the- that was the fucked up part and that’s what like it, sort of, like, ruined my, like, image for myself because I felt like I had come far in my transition and then for someone to just based off of looks call me that was kind of, like, a hit. So kind of brought-brought me down a little bit.
Jojo
Totally. It’s definitely, definitely challenging. It’s jarring. Thank you for sharing that. I’m sorry you had that experience as well. Next question here is kind of a three parter. You’re welcome to comment on any of this, none of this, whatever you’d like.
Would you like to comment on any experiences you faced in regards to safety and security, insecurities in the finances, home or food, or experiences with mental health, physical health or addiction?
Chess
So honestly, in regards of safety and security, I feel like I’ve been pretty lucky as far as that goes being a trans man. I haven’t had- well, actually I take that back. I’ve had one situation where I got my ass kicked at a bar. I lost my glasses that night, never found them. They were Ray-Bans, pretty upset about that. But yeah, no, I just, like, got my ass knocked out for no reason. Don’t know why, still don’t know why. That’s the only, like, safety issue that I’ve really had. Otherwise I’ve been pretty lucky with like, besides being called a fag on the street and stuff like that. I’ve been pretty lucky.
Insecurities and finances, home or food, that’s always a big insecurity. Not insecurity, but a big struggle for me. Especially living alone right now, I’m working on independence and trying to be able to afford everything on my own. And that’s why I had picked up two jobs, but it was just overworking me so I had to drop one of the jobs, unfortunately. Bigger things are coming with that. So I’m excited. Mental health, physical health and addiction… I don’t know… I’m just trying to think in terms of, like, trans-based.
Jojo
And it doesn’t have to be in relation to your transness. It can be if you’d like it to be. And you also don’t have to comment on it.
Chess
I will say that I did struggle with autism for, I have been struggling with autism for as long as I can remember at this point. Never got diagnosed with it. Instead it was my other sibling who was born AMAB. She’s also trans, my only full-blooded sibling. But she got diagnosed with autism at an early age and they did not diagnose me because of the whole not diagnosing AFABs back then was a whole thing, which is kind of frustrating. So I got a late diagnosis in 2020. And since I got that diagnosis, it’s helped me tremendously. I did lose a seven year relationship out of it because I didn’t know what was wrong with me and why I would react the way that I would and have like the meltdowns that I had and stuff like that. And it just got to a point where my ex was, she couldn’t do it anymore. So that’s totally understandable. I get that.
But yeah, I feel like my physical health’s pretty good. Ever since I got the hysterectomy, I’ve actually been doing well. I’ve been feeling a lot more confident in my body, if that makes sense.
It feels really good to finally like, cause there are a lot of people that will, like, tell me, “hey, you’re attractive. Hey, you’re attractive. Hey, you, you know, you look good” or, you know, stuff like that. And I would always disregard those compliments because nobody would typically say those things to me growing up, my whole life, and now, I have, like, a horde of people telling me these things and it’s like, I’m trying to be accepting instead of, like, disregarding it. And that’s a really weird change for me. But I don’t know I’m kind of working on that as well and like just understanding that I am you know I hate to say that, but I am good looking. I am not ugly. I’m not something that I’ve been seeing in myself in the mirror, if that makes sense. But other people see different versions of me than when I actually see it myself. Yeah.
Jojo
Yeah, I think that’s a great way to put it. Yeah, I think there’s a lot of conversation in regards to feeling seen both by yourself and by others. So I think that disconnect when others aren’t seeing you for you and when you’re not seeing you for yourself is difficult.
Chess
I feel like it’s also, as weird as this sounds, but like the partner that you’re with, the type of support that you get from that partner. Because you get different support from different partners and just like the relationship that I’m in now is a different type of support that I’ve ever had. It feels a lot more healthy. It feels like it feels right, if that makes sense. And not- non-judgmental, which is also a really big thing.
Jojo
Could you describe a little more the impact of that feeling of support in your relationship? What does that look like for you? That support.
Chess
The support, I mean, it’s doing things for each other. It’s understanding each other when we’re going through hard times. It’s making sure that if there’s something that we’re going through, we’re there for each other. I don’t know, it’s just keeping each other around when you need them.
Jojo
Perfect. And then would you like to recognize any important sources of support that you’ve interacted with specifically? People, organizations, anything?
Chess
I haven’t gotten any organizations that I’ve gotten, like, support from. I get a lot of support from my tattoo work. A lot of people like to get tattoos from me which I think is really cool.
Jojo
Definitely want to support trans artists.
Chess
Thank you. Yeah, mostly, I don’t know, I get a lot of appraisal at work too because I’m a pretty good worker. I’m, like, I’m up for a manager position, you know, like that says that. Yeah, absolutely. They’re very supportive of that and they’re excited for me. So, good.
Jojo
Congratulations, I’ve got my fingers crossed for you.
Chess
I’ve already got the position secured. Yeah, they’ve also got me an assistant manager already. It’s just that I’m waiting on the store to actually, like, open up. that’s sick. Thank you.
Jojo
Cool. Congrats. Awesome. One more question in this section is, can you tell me a time where you felt seen and describe that experience to me? Truly seen as you are, as you see yourself.
Chess
I feel like I continuously feel seen by the person that I’m currently with, by my partner. Because I’m able to be open and vulnerable and just who I am. And I’ve never felt that sort of comfortability with another person where I’m able to like- because I’ve dated a couple other Trans Men, but not other like, I don’t know how to explain it, like supportive Trans Men. People that are understanding and people that don’t basically give up on you when you have a meltdown, if that makes sense, because there are people who will do that. I just need understanding and support when it comes to situations like that instead of somebody who will give up. And that’s what I have right now. And it’s very nice.
Jojo
Good, I’m happy for you. So I have one more question for you. Before we get to that, I’d like to say thank you for doing this. Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for sitting here and chatting with me. It’s been a pleasure. So the last question here, this is what we’ll end the recording on. So these will be the last words. Your words will be.
Chess
Yeah, I had a good time.
Jojo
If your next sentence could be broadcast globally, is there anything that you would want to say to every person on earth right now?
Chess
I feel like it would be my favorite quote. It would be: the only way out is through. Because that can stand for a lot of different types of situations. It’s a very broad, kind of, line. But it’s basically saying like, even if it’s a struggle, you still gotta make it. By the end of the struggle you will, you know, you’ve made the finish line. You’ve made it through and that’s all you’ve got to do is get through the struggle.